Fluffy White Bunnies #28 – We Regret, No Refunds

Anyone else’s wallet take a hit when Live got shut down on Saturday night?

Check out more of Alastair’s work on his website

Comments
101 Responses to “Fluffy White Bunnies #28 – We Regret, No Refunds”
  1. N says:

    Backstory plz?

  2. Bob says:

    Live got shut down on Saturday because of issues with the council but didn’t give refunds.
    Apparently if people write their name on Live’s Facebook wall, they’ll get a refund though.
    That’s just what I’ve seen online.

  3. Gary Marais says:

    I got my money back, just saying

  4. Jolling! says:

    Looks like DIY is getting banned from Live.

  5. Lols! says:

    Spot on. Fuck Live. It all would have been good if jus handled their shit proper and not swore and tuned us off for wanting our money back, now al my mates are pulling in for free. Fuck them.

  6. The Lappies says:

    Durban Is Yours

    To set the record straight we were closed down for not having a business license, which you only receive once you have your special consent granted to change the use of the building. We are now 21 months into that 4 month special consent application process so you do the math and tell me whats wrong with this picture???

    Yeah, that’s right, no one asks for an explanation and once again the uninformed public shout their mouths off anonymously while hiding behind a computer screen, what a bunch of immature cowards!!! When the authorities rocked up we were told by the police to vacate the premises within minutes and if they were not vacated then we would be arrested along with anyone left inside.

    The decision was then made to have the gig again on another evening with the same bands when all this bull had been sorted out and let the people that posted on our wall that they were there or people that filled their name in on the list outside, in for free.

    Whats your suggestion on what we should do when faced with this situation people??? Let you all get arrested or do what we had to do to not let that happen??? We were looking after your interests and ours at the same time so if you cant understand this or ask for an explanation before shouting your mouths off then you might as well go back to sleep!!!

    If you have anything to say about this or feel that I am being out of line here you can contact me on [email protected] and I will gladly inform you of the whole story, e mail you our timeline of the application process that was started in NOVEMBER 2010 and give your R60 bucks back if it means that much to you!!!

    Its clear that the majority of the Durban public along with the press and a lot of South Africa’s musicians are behind Live – The Venue and that is where they will stay, apart from the few who will have nothing good to say about anything, ever…

    Yours in Live Music & Durban

    Lappies

  7. Livemusiclover says:

    Live the venue you have our support, dont worry about the haters who have no brains but turds instead, they arent worth shit. And this guy who drew this comic has the art skills of a cow, the prick…

  8. Livesupporter says:

    You have mine too!!! Artists arsehole!!!

  9. Danny says:

    I agree with Andrew 100%! What happened was unfortunate and when you gotta hustle you HUSTLE your ass off to make sure your punters are looked after and safe. Corruption strives, but i hope this gets sorted quickly so we can all enjoy a place that strives for a better scene!
    There will always be selfish individuals who can’t look passed the last party, but they will come back, they have nothing better to do…

  10. Dead The Venue says:

    So you operated illegally, and then your staff treated people like shit when you got shut down, but we’re meant to be behind you? You don’t have the support you think you do bru.

    Live has potential but is clearly run by morons that don’t give a damn about the customer. The system may be corrupt, but don’t take that out on the people that pay a LOT of money to go to your shows.

    I can’t wait for Winston to return to it’s glory days. They may not have a billion rand sound and lighting rig, but the place has heart, something Live clearly doesn’t.

  11. B says:

    Ous speaking from experience Live was/is one of the greatest things that has happened to the Durban music scene in….. forever!!!! Its honestly one of the best live music venues in the country if not THE best and if you’ve been in a band and gigged around this country of ours you’d know what I am talking about so instead of whinging about this maybe its high time we as members of the public get involved and let our voice be heard. We should petition that the place be reopened purely on principal then maybe the big shows might start coming to Durban again instead of Jo’burg and Cape Town.

  12. xdoomx says:

    LIVE.. fill this in and get it filed asap. You should have done this after ‘4 months’ was up:

    http://www.durban.gov.za/Documents/City_Government/Ombedsperson/complaints_form__english.pdf

  13. Bob says:

    Lappies,

    I think the main issue was how people were treated when shit went down.
    That’s the main complaint I heard from most people, that they were sworn at and harassed and denied any compensation, but obviously the last part isn’t entirely true as you’ve stated, but the former does raise concerns. You know I support you guys, but multiple people, multiple times have complained about the treatment they’ve received at Live and that’s an issue I think that really needs to be addressed, especially when public support is needed.

  14. Colin Peddie says:

    RISE and sonic is behind you. What can we do?

  15. I also agree with “The Lappies”.

    I was not at LIVE on Saturday 25 August. All I know is that getting removed from a venue and losing out on R60 is a lot better than being arrested.

    I was a victim of SAPS harassment in Argyle Road on Saturday 17 August and I am still traumatised. From my experience the police do as they please, will not listen to reason and carry guns.

  16. matt says:

    “List outside” ? …. After being asked to GTFO, we waited outside for about 45 minutes. There was no list outside! If there was, then a lot of the complaining wouldn’t have happened. To the average Durbanite, R60 goes a long way. At least at House Of Curries it used to, before they increased their prices and decreased their portion sizes. But anyway, it just would’ve been pretty rad if they could’ve given our money back. We were only there for about 20 minutes and all we got was a really crap stamp on our arms. Those 20 minutes were actually spent debating over what the stamp possibly resembled. And after all of that, my R60 stamp washed off in the shower! But this isn’t about stamps or the price of rotis… The cash from everybody’s entry fees was sitting in the office. It easily could’ve been refunded on the night in very little time and effort. I only saw one police officer, and he wasn’t waving his gun around telling everyone they should leave, so it really was a calm situation that should’ve been sorted out on the night. Am I wrong Andrew?

  17. cae says:

    So yes…people shouldn’t be sworn at and miss-handled, that’s not good business. But this just sounds a bit whiney in the face of a much bigger issue…grow a few gents, get over it and see the bigger picture.

  18. Long Live LIVE the venue says:

    I agree with B.

    LIVE The Venue is one of the best music venues in the country. To have it in Durban is an added bonus. I’ve been gigging around South Africa for about a decade now and never have I experienced a club with owners who take such pride in their sound & presentation.

    Just think of the massive investment these guys are risking to breath some life into this town and you guys are worried about 60 bucks. The owners would still have had to pay the touring bands although the gig was canceled so they are, in fact, running at a huge loss from that night.

    Put yourselves in their shoes for a minute –
    * you’ve poured your life savings into a venue to show the community a good time
    * the community digs it
    * the cops come and screw it all up
    * and now the community puts the blame on your shoulders

    As a musician, I would like to put together a petition (like B says) and put a massive middle finger in the faces of the authorities (the guys we should be fighting with) so that LIVE The Venue can finally be granted their business license and the Arts & Culture can have a platform to thrive in this town.

    Durban is known throughout South Africa (and I know this from many sources nation wide from chatting to people) for having such a negative vibe when it comes to the music scene. It would be fucking amazing if we could all stop whinging and work together to build a stronger scene in Durban so that out of town bands wont want to bypass this awesome city we live in!

  19. Brendan Meintjes says:

    The Lappies. Ironic that you accuse us of hiding behind a computer screen anonymously.

    I was there and when I asked what happened I was told to get out. When I asked if I can have my money back or write my details down as proof I was there, again “no, get out”
    There was no list outside, we were treated poorly, you’ve handled this even poorly (if you’re a troll,well played. If you really work at LIVE then you need to learn how to treat customers)

    The license issue is yours to deal with, you opened your doors without the right documents so I’m not sure why this is your customers problen now and why we take the fall for it

  20. The customer is always screwed says:

    “Just think of the massive investment these guys are risking to
    breath some life into this town and you guys are worried about
    60 bucks. The owners would still have had to pay the touring
    bands although the gig was canceled so they are, in fact, running
    at a huge loss from that night.”

    Most illegal ventures are risky and yes, people are worried about their 60 bucks because they paid R60 for a show they didn’t get. Live’s issues sjouldn’t be made the customer’s problem. That’s basic business. And they clearly didn’t run at that much of a loss since they didn’t give people their money back.

    Instead of apologising to their customers, they harassed them, and now Lappies goes on the attack and says “Email me and I’ll give you your money back, IF IT MEANS THAT MUCH TO YOU.”
    Of course it means that much to me, I wasn’t the one that made the decision to open the club when I wasn’t legally allowed to, but I know if I do email him, his attitude will probably get worse. I want to support live but they’re making it hard to do when they can’t get the basics of business right.

  21. That Guy says:

    Hey Lappies. Please bottle all your tears so I can masterbate with them.

  22. Fuck the bigger issue says:

    I love that every d-bag that wasn’t at Live is suddenly a
    faux protestor. Fuck you and fuck Live. If you were treated the way we would you would pissed off too. Don’t be fooled by their “woe is me” bs. There isn’t a bigger picture here, the dickwads tools our money even though they were operating illegally.

    On a side note. Andrew should be banned from touching a keyboard, his hot headed snarks completely misrepresent Live. It’s pretty obvious that he’s asked his mates to bombard this thread.

    Peace!

  23. Queefer Sutherland says:

    I’m not too sure why we should feel sorry for Live when they were the ones who opened with full knowledge it was illegal. I think their whole team needs to get some business etiquette classes on how to treat people & respond to public questions in a public forum. “The Lappies” pseudonym is fucking immature & derogatory, it actually feels like asking everyone to email you is a threat. I highly doubt Live is going to be open for much longer if its been run by a bunch of fucking cunts who think they are in a gang in down town Lagos. Grow up & get over yourselves, you basically stole money from people & have shown little to no sympathy for it. Dicks

  24. Fuck the bigger issue says:

    Yoh, Queefer nailed it!

  25. Jolling! says:

    Musicians saying “It’s just R60” obviously care about their audience as much as Live do.

  26. Tam says:

    Live, you really need some professional PR assistance. You suck at dealing with your customers and it only gets worse each time.

    I have NEVER known a company, brand or business owner to hurl abuse at disgruntled customers. You should be begging them to come back. You are the immature one in this situation who throws away awesome opportunities to put things right. In my opinion, DIY did you a favour by bringing this up. You could have handled it with a conversation-changing response. Instead, you continuously reaffirm every single complaint and bad-attitude accusation that I have heard about you.

  27. I would like to point out that name calling like “fucking cunts” and “dickwads” is not helping you put your point across, it is unnecessary.

    Some patrons on this thread have complained that they were sworn at and manhandled by LIVE staff. Every time I have been to LIVE I am appalled by the way patrons treat each other. The last time I was there I personally tried to stop 2 guys from beating the crap out of each other and then tried to help separate 3 girls who were trying to bitch slap each other.

    To the people giving business advice, have you ever owned your own business that you are able to speak from experience?

  28. Steve says:

    As someone who works in the realm of digital PR and online marketing I can give you one informed oppinion, Live really needs someone outside of management running their social profile and customer interaction. Their PR is horrible and as Tam said, is really not doing the brand any good.

    Bianca, you do not need to own a business to understand the fundamentals of customer service.

  29. Jolling! says:

    So what you’re saying Bianca, is that the bouncers don’t even do the job they’re meant to do?

    And the name calling certainly gets the point that people are upset about not getting a show or their money back across. If Live handled the situation better, they would have more people supporting them than just their friends. Instead, people are angry with the venue because they make us feel like all they want is our money, but we must be sympathetic to their troubles. Fuck that.

    And you don’t need to own a business to know that if people don’t want to support you, you’re going to have a much tougher time staying open.

  30. Brendan Meintjes says:

    I don’t own my own business but I have worked for a few years in retail while I study. It might not be exactly the same but the basic principle is if you’re rude to your customers they’re likely to go elsewhere. Lucky for LIVE there currently is no elsewhere. I really dig the venue, I’d love it to stay. I just think their handling of the situation was poor and the aggressive tone of their excuses even worse

  31. beenthere donethat says:

    Were ANY of you there the night before? It was AMAZING!!! Live hosted a full-blown “Metal Night” and despite what people have said about the metal scene, it OWNED! They did a great job, and it was an all round success.
    And by the way…. I remember both BURN and the WINSTON going through similar stuff a few years ago, and we all got behind them for the preservation of our scene, and it worked! Stop pointing blame, cut your losses (or send your email and get your money back) and if you want to have a music scene in Durban 5 years from now, just stick it out. It was ONE night! And P.S. The WINSTON is under new ownership for a reason! And that reason is apathetic kids who are all about “the scene” but are never in it, or at the shows. Done.

  32. Jolling! says:

    More like, The Winston is under new ownership because the old owner is a bitch that let the place get run down, caused shit with customers and never invested any money in the place.

  33. Jolling! says:

    Don’t be so naive to think that Live are on some altruistic crusade. Of course the licensing issues are very real and need to be dealt with urgently because it’s problems like that that caused the demise of genuine places like Unit 11 and puts a stranglehold on other venues that could open up. But the only reason Live are in it is for money and to get pats on their back. They’ve made that very clear. And there will be a music scene in 5 years time regardless, as long as bands want to play, they’ll find somewhere to do so. Venues come and go but the music is forever.

  34. luke says:

    jolling, when not trolling, is pretty on point. kudos.

  35. SniffSniffs says:

    Agree with Jolling! People who think Live have saved the Durban music scene, or revived it, or is somehow crucial to its existence are fucking dreaming. There was a music scene in Durban long before Live, and there will be a music scene long after it. A music scene isn’t all about how awesome your light and sound rig is. If ous wanna play music, they will, be it in someone’s backyard, lounge, or a shitty fucking pub. That’s how I remember shit going down.

  36. Jou Ma Se Poes says:

    Fuck Live.

  37. Troll. says:

    The bouncers are dicks.
    The bartenders are grumpy and slow.
    The PR and management is horrible.
    They treat customers badly.
    They operate illegally.
    And last but not least, they kick people out of shows for stage diving and having a good party.

    But none of this matters cause the sound and lighting is great.
    The end.

  38. Morgan says:

    The fucken kids these days. DIY posts a gig review or comment that doesn’t felate a Durban band, and the ‘Scene Cops’ bust the reviewers chops for “not supporting local music”. Then this shit happens to Live and you eTough Webmasters reckon the scene doesn’t need any help? Fuck off kids, and take your first world problems with you.

    Lappies is up against a backlogged, indescribably corrupt municipality. The cops that pulled into to shut down Live have a boss that also runs his own taxi service. I have seen him, with my own eyes manhandle a middle aged nurse into the back of a police van. That was shortly before I was arrested by another Metro fuzz for doing my job. The department in charge of enforcing business codes either extorts local entertainment venues for licence leeway, or grants licences for kickbacks. The clubs or restaurants that don’t play that fucked up game get shut down.

    Boss Snifsnif and chief seer Jolling, tell you what: you host the next gig. You provide space for at least 350 people in your living room or backyard or whatever the fuck you call a house, show us the liquor licence that allows you to sell booze, put security at the door to prevent under age entry and adhere to entertainment security requirements. Ensure that there is an adequate emergency escape route, never blocked or locked in case of a fire. Supply hydrants and extinguishers. Guarantee parking proportional to the capacity of your venue/kitchen/bathroom. Pay business rates. Line up the bands. Oh, and keep the cops off everyones back with your magical anti corruption ray.

  39. luke says:

    there point.

    your head.

  40. Jolling! says:

    Or you can just plug in amps and play until the cops come. Jesus, have you never been to a house party?

    You people are still missing the point. People paid money to see a show, they didn’t get a show. Now even though Live are up against corruption, they still made the choice to go ahead at what has become the audiences expense. If they’d just given everyone a refund, and sent out an apology on facebook and to the press explaining the situation, they’d have everyone’s support. But they decided to make their problems the customers problems and acted like dicks in the process, yet for some reason, people still stand up for them. How we react under adversity shows our true character and Live have shown that they only have THEIR best interests at heart, not ours, and for that reason, they don’t deserve OUR support as much as I’m sure everyone agrees that this corruption does have to stop.

    The corruption and their treatment of their audience are two seperate issues.

  41. SniffSniffs says:

    Morgan, all these corruption issues are Live’s problem, not the public’s, but the public’s been made to pay for them. By all means, shut down a show, play the corruption game like countless venues have done before, do what you have to do, but don’t make it your patrons’ problem. If shit gets shut down, apologise to people. Offer to put on a free show. Don’t treat people like shit because they don’t understand your business woes. Don’t tell people that their hard earned cash is ‘just 60 bucks’. This is the thing that the management at Live has never understood.

    All that shit about fire escapes, fire hydrants, emergency exits… who gives a fuck. If I go shopping somewhere and get ripped off, or treated badly, and the manager comes to me and says, ‘you don’t understand what it’s like to run a store, to deal with staff, and pay rent, etc etc.’ I would laugh at them. No one cares about that shit. Other venues before Live have dealt with it, why can’t they? Like I said, the music scene in Durban doesn’t need Live. It was there before, and it’ll always be there. The scene has gone through slumps before, and then it comes right.

  42. N says:

    You’ve got some shit PR, Live. Jesus Christ. How about you act like professionals for once in your short existence?

  43. Administrator says:

    Dont really care … shit happens? boohoo, I have been thrown out of many a club/bar for noise complaints, license problems etc, been “man handled” (totally traumatizing haha) grow a pair and get over it. These bladdy vega type students”I have blog” people think the world owes them something, sick of it. Just stop whining

  44. Tam says:

    Why Bianca, I’m so glad you asked! As a matter of fact I do. If you’d like a creds deck, let me know 😉 Have a good evening. Live could still come back from this so so easily with a simple sorry but as usual egos triumph. Pathetic.

  45. Troll. says:

    Morgan sounds like a cunt.

  46. Tam says:

    1. What exactly is a vega type student?
    2. Where did you get that chip on your shoulder?
    3. Live is the epitome of entitlement in all its communication, and yes, they do owe their customers something.

  47. Tea Bags says:

    So stoked i went to the Pozi Jol instead! there was beer betties and improv Jamming!

  48. Troll. says:

    Administrator sounds like an even bigger cunt than Morgan.

  49. Wololo says:

    Who needs isidingo when we have this shit? haha

  50. Lord Farquaad says:

    I HAVE ALL OF LIVE’S POSTERS ON MY WALL IN MY BEDROOM, THEY BELONG IN GALLERIES.

  51. 20Yes says:

    I liked the part where people were having a good time and then they weren’t.

  52. dizzle says:

    The “list outside” was a piece of paper at the front booth which we got directed to only after we went and asked how to get refunded. There should’ve been someone at the door instructing and reassuring people as they were ushered out. The sound guy could also have easily instructed patrons on what to do when he announced the closure. A little communication goes a long way. I feel for Live, I know the extent to which the ethekwini municipality can cockblock venues…same shit happened to thunder road, burn & unit 11 amongst others. It’s a fucked up system. And fuck the Bellagio for calling in complaints. But fact remains…a little concise communication to your patrons goes a long way. Especially when your patrons might need to be called upon to sign petitions and add to the media exposure that issues like this receive.

  53. Gregory says:

    Wow, the economy is bad if R60 warrants all of this discussion. Come now, I think everyone can learn from this and move forward. Live is obviously not all that bad if you’re all going there, and I’m sure you would be upset if their doors shut permanently. Live, there is obviously a customer relations issue that needs to be addressed, both related to this incident and perhaps on a more long-term scale. As far as the red-tape and corruption goes, I’m not sure if we’re living in the same country but I think this is the real enemy we should be standing up against.. use it, don’t use it, but at least move on 😉

  54. DavyJesus says:

    But I was gonna roll that R60 and shnarf coke… Now I have nothing but this cool story brah.

  55. pigeon valley - back in the day says:

    hey andrew – i know you have told o’s they can mail for a refund, but how the fuck does that work? do you have to have a ticket number/stub or something to validate the claim? i have one other Question, why were refunds not given on the night, if no show was presented? it makes no sense to me!!! Rock on music – music will never end, even after we’re gone. we’ve blasted so many fucking radio waves out into space.

  56. Morgan says:

    Firstly, Snifsnif, you are the mighty chief you reckons we can just have house parties, as if house parties aren’t themselves the definition of exclusivity. Are you going to invite me? Can I or anyone else who disagrees with you be on your extensive guest list of, er, maybe 25 socialite hipsters? Must I bring my own acid?

    Jolling, so as I understand it, you have been offered the option of attending the next gig free of charge, possibly with the same bands. What’s the problem? Oh wait, I see… you’ll have died of starvation before then since the 60 bucks would have bought baby formula for your triplets for a month, medicine for your ailing grandmother and repaired the leak in the ceiling of your modest handmade wig business. That is if you hadn’t already spent the money on a gig. Although in truth, it’s not about the money is it? Actually you just want the public at large to kiss your ass and all your post modern bullshit. And me disagreeing with you… Geez, that just makes you so righteously indignant!

    Troll, I’m sorry. But I can’t really refute that last statement.

  57. aqe says:

    Besides from this little minefield of shit bombs that went boom at live (which I missed because I had better judgement) there’s always been troubled times at Live. If it’s not management giving bands shit for standing up for them selves (G!G!B! anyone?) or bouncers hating on patrons (let’s face it; a hundred people can’t all be wrong) it’s poor judgement like this. You guys at Live (and yes Lappies if you ask for my personal details I’ll give them. Then you can threaten to kick my head in as well) knew what you were doing wrong. And now it’s the council or the municipality’s fault. Yeah I’m sure many a venue had to suck a dick here and there to get stuff done, but own up to your short comings. You fucked up. People are gonna hate. You want to know what makes a great place, like Unit etc? Having the people who run the place and the people who protect the place, and all the other people who do the nitty gritty jobs to make that place run like a well oiled machine… to have those people not be self-important arrogant and all-round proper assholes to the people who go there, spend their money and pay your salaries. We had such high hopes for Live. And it disappointed time after time. We don’t need a huge hall with the most awesome stage the Durban scene has seen in a long time. We’d love that, don’t get me wrong. We crave that. But we’d take a dirty little grimy warehouse with a half meter-high stage any day of the week cause it has personality. Not an empty shell that hides behind private message threats to the musicians who bring their art to your stage, or the bouncers tripping balls on seriods ready to fuck anyone up if they smile in the wrong direction too much. Quite frankly what happened to Live makes me sad cause it had so much potential but I can’t say no one saw this coming and to be honest I’m not surprised. When the people who were part of this scene remember the good old days, in 50 years time, thinking back to the places they use too love, and the places that shaped friendships and created a sub culture unique to that live music venue, Live will be a “meh, shit happens” stuck on the back of many tongues. And that could have been avoided with some logic and common decency. No one’s bummed about the money. People are bummed cause you let them down. You had promise. And fucked up time and time again. And that dear Lappies, is why people are hating on your venue. Ps. work on your PR skills. That shit is atrocious.

  58. Troll. says:

    Andrew.

    You can’t refute my last statement because you are infact, a cunt.

  59. Jimi says:

    8====D – – – – Live.

  60. Jolling! says:

    You disagreeing with me just makes you an idiot.

  61. Donald Fuck says:

    Morgan that was weak bro.
    Jesus.

  62. pigeon valley - back in the day says:

    Haa haa i’m going to bed…
    Mogan, by saying you cant refute trolls statement you are actually saying you agree with him? this is true no?
    And troll your anger you directed at andrew in your last comment should be directed at morgan…
    lol you bunch of loosers

  63. SniffSniffs says:

    Morgan, you’ve lost the plot son. Exclusivity? When did I talk about exclusivity? And no, I don’t think we should all just have house parties. That’s dumb.

    Music survived in Durban without Live. We don’t need it. It’d be cool if it hung around though. New and better venues are always a plus. But when said venues arrive and start thinking of themselves as saviours, and treating their patrons like shit, then I’d rather they weren’t there.

  64. Troll. says:

    Yo. Pigeon Valley.

    You’re the ‘looser’ here.
    You just took cunt of the night away from Andrew/Morgan and gave it to yourself.
    Learn to spell Fuck face.

    Lol.

  65. beenthere donethat says:

    Jolling! – I have played more obscure venues than you’ve had hot dinners, from parking lots, dodgy bars, sports pubs, back yards, and proper clubs. I know that venues are of short supply in Durban, and I have been there when we’ve had to make our own way. I’ve seen the Durban alternative music scene at its strongest, and watched it rise and fall. Unit 11 was a hole. A joke. Get a grip! Half of the stage was converted into a shop, and was covered in useless props, and they could never even get the sound guy to come in on time! You obviously never saw the Winston in its heyday, and wouldn’t know a thing about why so many of us would still call it home (although we no longer frequent it because of juveniles that have no identity of their own, so they leech off what’s left of others). I’m not putting LIVE on a pedestal as Durban’s saviour, its just another outlet. It has its flaws… No fans or aircon, for one… I just find it sad that this has divided everybody into “the afflicted” and those who just want somewhere to enjoy alternative music, no matter where or how…. You’ll probably just troll this, but that’s how you get off, so be my guest. Just clean up when you’re done.

  66. Jolling! says:

    I like holes. Nothing better to stick your dick in.

  67. Jolling! says:

    Oh, and I was going to The Winston when people that listened to metal weren’t cunts about it. Let me guess, your identity “of your own” is long hair and a black Mastadon T-shirt? Definitely came up with that on your own didn’t ya?

  68. beenthere donethat says:

    Sorry…. I don’t even like Mastodon… And more to your point…. When did metal heads become such terrible people there…? For the most part, we all just packed up and left…

  69. Jolling! says:

    You don’t like Mastodon? Then you’re not a real metal head. Poser. It’s a good thing you left, probably got shunned from the rest of the herd, doomed to walk the world as an outcast with no home, no sense of self, no identity to cling to and to eventually face extinction like the Mastodon that you yourself shunned. Good riddance.

  70. SniffSniffs says:

    I’ve also played in bands. In shitty venues all over this country. For no money, and no support. I also saw the Winston in it’s heyday. Called the place home. For those reasons alone I won’t get on my knees and suck Live’s dick.

  71. Shane says:

    It’s so sad to see how nasty people are to each other.

    It truly breaks my heart.

    If we don’t have each other, then who else do we have.

  72. GN says:

    Dear Live

    Firstly I love your work! Secondly I own a restaurant and the exact same thing happened to us. We applied for our license and the health department never arrived to do the inspection, 9 months later she arrived on a Friday morning and said all we had to do was get an ‘inside no smoking sign’ and that she would return on Monday to clear us. That very same night with a full restaurant, the license department, fire department, Police with GUNS and health department (with the same lady) came busting in, trying to shut us down for not have the license, yet it was them that held up the process. They fined us R6000 for trading without the license even though we had applied for it months and months before. I feel your pain. Good luck and we will keep supporting you!
    PS they are very happy to take your tax!

  73. Lols! says:

    What the fuck is a “Vega type student” and how the fuck is that relevant. To this all?!

    Durban: “the one horse town of tribal boets and closed minded fuckfaces”

  74. Steve says:

    “It’s so sad to see how nasty people are to each other.

    It truly breaks my heart.

    If we don’t have each other, then who else do we have.”

    I have friends. I dunno, just sayin’.

  75. Roger Young says:

    I like the guy who thinks that music can survive without legitimate venues. I mean when last did Durban produce a great band? A great sound and light rig can feed into the national ecosystem that brings bands to Durban, and gets bands out of Durban.

    Does Live have a lot to learn about customer service? Yes. Does Lappies freak out in a stressful situation? Yes, often. Live has spent, over the last 21 months, about 200k (according to Lappies timeline document) just trying to get the council to tell them which permanent license it should be applying for. They were operating legally, on temporary licenses until very recently. Is any of this an excuse to treat the punter badly, absolutely not. But should you okes be stamping your feet at Live or should you not be looking at the bigger picture. If Live wasn’t under this constant stress, I’m sure they would be dealing with all the PR issues. Where is this stress coming from? Who is the bigger enemy?

    Over the last 4 years Durban has lost a lot of great venues to City Council shenanigans. The Durban music community needs to unite and deal with this ASAP, if you guys want to stop losing venues. Then after you have achieved that, then you can worry about who said please and thank you and cry into your effing drafts at Jackie Horners because you didn’t get to see The Anti-Retro Vinyls again.

    And about that timeline Lappies offered, somewhat passive aggressively, to show you okes, that you all just ignored. You should read it, it’s a fucking horror show. Did you know Durban City council has a POLICY to discourage the opening of any new venues. A fucking policy. Think about that and your great musical future. You should all be as angry as Lappies and you should all be fighting this shit, together, instead of being the whiny little bitches that you are.

  76. Brendan Meintjes says:

    Everyone saying “it’s only R60”, how about you throw in R60 each to refund us all if you have no problem with paying R60 for nothing?

  77. Mat says:

    Well said Roger.
    Everyone bummed about your R60, go get fucking jobs!

  78. Wololo says:

    Spot on Roger!

    If the whiners dont like it, they are more than welcome host their three man Trollcore house parties by themselves.

    The rest of us will deal with Durbans music scenes minor imperfections like big boys and girls and get the fuck on with life.

  79. SniffSniffs says:

    This whole issue actually has very little to do with whether or not Durban music can survive without legit venues. Of course we need legit venues. Like I said, I would love for Live to succeed. But Durban music has survived for a long time without the aid of giant sound and light rigs. People would be happy to get behind Live and fight the real issue, if Live weren’t constantly fighting its patrons.

  80. Seriously? says:

    So yeah this whole ‘drama’ took place and this whole ‘issue’ is being refocused onto other things that arent even the real issue! It’s really simple, LiVE traded ‘illegally’ on that particular day, and of course the owners knew about it, so firstly, admit you were wrong to open your doors to the public and that your sorry that your customers ie. people who paid R60.00 and the bands that were featured on that particular night, themselves had to be victims to your idiotic choice to trade when YOU knew it could lead to this particular circumstance. Yeah many other venues have done the same thing and when they’ve been busted, just like you were, they never mishandled or mistreated their customers, they didnt ‘steal their money’ nor did they get them against them to the point where people are posting comics, or nasty comments about the venue. You said you were looking out for our best interest just as much as you were looking out for yours, i totally disagree, if you were, you would never have allowed any one in, knowing you weren’t legal to trade, you were more interested in taking a fluke shot at making money than playing it safe.

    Anyway the real issue at hand is the way things were handled. Not cos R60.00 was ‘stolen’ or not ‘refunded’ nor the fact LiVE doesnt have her paper work processed, registered/licensed. Your life support is your customers, treat them with the respect you would appreciate as a customer and you wouldn’t be dealing with this slandering or bad rep.

  81. Roger Young says:

    @SniffSniff

    Can you actually read?

    The issue has EVERYTHING to do with whether or not Durban music can survive without legit venues. Durban music has survived, sure, but it’s hardly prospered.

    How about you realise that you are all in this together. And how about one of you, who knows how to handle PR, offers Lappies their services. You guys seriously need to be more proactive unless you want to end up in a world where the only live venues are at Moses Madiba and that define live music as Culoe De Song.

  82. SniffSniffs says:

    People have offered Lappies their PR assistance a number of times. He largely ignores it. I know this because I know people who have. You, along with pretty much everyone here, has missed my point.

    I shall summarise it here in point form:

    1) I like Live and want it to succeed. I don’t want to have to go to Gateway to watch big bands.

    2) I loath the city council and all its corrupt ways.

    3) Live the venue comes across as not being for Durban music, but rather about playing Durban saviours, and showing off their fancy light and sound rig.

    4) People have complained about treatment at Live and they’re usually treated like ass, but we’re supposed to ignore all this shit and pat them on the back and get behind them, even though they don’t behave as though they’re behind us.

    5) I will continue to support Live, largely because I have little choice, and because I want to support the bands that come through and see more bands coming through in the future.

  83. That Guy says:

    HAHAHAHAHA. Prospered? Has any music scene in South Africa, apart from the Bellville circle jerk that is, truly prospered? What is this? ‘Know-it-alls being naive’ day or some shit?

    Roger. Do you seriously think that by having a ‘legit venue’, ‘great bands’ will just start popping out the woodwork? That’s insane. Come off it.

    PS. Swinging shit like ‘Can you even read’ when you completely missed Sniffsniffs initial point is embarrassing.

  84. Larry David says:

    Looks like The Winston Pub is gonna be making a comeback soon.

    And i for one think that it’s going to be pre-tty, pre-tty, pre-tty pre-tty, pretty good.

  85. Roger Young says:

    @SniffSniff

    Yeah, I got all your points. Here are mine.

    1: Lappies can be a bit of a dick. But he’s willing to fight the council.

    2: The Durban City Council’s legal position is that there are to be no more live music venues in Durban.

    3: What’s more important?

    @That Guy

    Um, both the Cape Town, Mercury/Assembly/Zula circuit and the Maboneng/Braamfontien/Acrade/Cool Runnings circuit in Joburg allow people in bands to make enough money to continue being in bands. Which leads to them sometimes touring. Which leads to them sometimes recording albums. Which leads to airplay. You get the picture?

    And yes, by having great venues with great sound bands like Fruit & Veg and ARV can hear their potential and end up delivering like motherfuckers at places like Oppi. It’s actually quite obvious.

  86. Rogery Young Child Lover says:

    Come on Roger. Let’s not make this a Cape Town vs Durban thing.

  87. Morgan says:

    The lack of substance some responses in this thread have makes me want to get punchy. Roger Young makes a valid point but you… yeah… Vega types! can’t respond with anything more than lazy memes or low blow ad hominem crap. Fek kids, even big music names from overseas that boast millions of fans don’t dare come to Durban because they fear a typical Durban wash out. And I’m not talking about the rain. Roger is not making this a Cape Town vs Durban thing. I’m sorry if the discussion has veered away from how slighted you all felt that you weren’t given complimentary handjobs upon leaving Live, but the argument that Live isn’t necessary was put out there by both Jolling and Snifsnif.

  88. Jimi Hogg says:

    A venue had nothing to do with the calibre of bands a city forms. Good bands will always find a venue to play, and people will always go and watch them regardless of the venue. Live seem to have the attitude that bands and patrons go to live for the venue, they don’t. The patrons are there to see bands, and the bands are there to play to patrons. The venue is completely irrelevant. Some of the most amazing shows I’ve been to have been completely makeshift, like Have Heart at the beach club, that’s not even a music venue. In the short time I went to live before they threatened me and banned me I didn’t see anything really worthwhile at live, maybe something had happened since. I don’t know. Only shit bands need a massive sounds rig to make them sound tolerable, and from what I’ve seen they seem to be the ones supporting live the most. Live ruined music for me for a long time, I’ve been in a band for six years, and played hundreds of shows, and I’ve never been treated like such shit as a musician and a patron by live the venue. And I’m still playing shows even though Andrew told me i’d never play this town again.

    I want live to succeed, but not at the expense of Durban’s musical scene. They have to change the way they treat bands and customers, but if live closes, good bands will always hasn’t a place to play, and their fans will always be there regardless of the venue. Durban music will never die.

  89. Kyle S says:

    God you are a whiney bunch of fuckers. Live is doing more for the metal scene than any local band has done in a long time. Who cares if the mainstream shows are failing, we don’t hipsters and sell outs at our venue anyway. The night before we had one of the best metal shows ever in Durban and none of you were there, so get over yourselves. You all pretend to care about the scene, but if you don’t support all shows, you’re just a poser. So quit whining and go back to Unit 11. Oh wait.

  90. Jimi Hogg says:

    “Live is doing more for the metal scene than any local band has done in a long time. ”

    I then go on to quote myself, a rich and awesome source of information:

    “Only shit bands need a massive sounds rig to make them sound tolerable, and from what I’ve seen they seem to be the ones supporting live the most.”

    Damn, I’m one sexy fuck.

  91. Jolling! says:

    “Who cares if the mainstream shows are failing, we don’t hipsters
    and sell outs at our venue anyway.”

    “You all pretend to care about the scene, but if you don’t support all shows, you’re just a poser.”

    Idiot.

  92. Bamhlanje says:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fycGFGSeKpc

    Stop moaning! Watch this instead…

  93. legal-lady says:

    1) Live The Venue has never actually asked anyone to support them in their ordeal with the municipality.
    2) Live The Venue was trading legally, their licenses were granted by a magistrate… however there seems to be a policy by the municipal inspector that he is and I quote “above the law”, they are currently taking legal action.

  94. respect says:

    Respect to live for handling this well in the wake of all the negativity. They have put together a plan and executed it accordingly to accomodate the patrons that were affected.

  95. TFG says:

    The close mindedness and holier than thou attitudes shown here are exactly the reason why Durban has such a shit scene. you kids need to get out and experience a big city and you will realise that a music scene is actually just about enjoying music with other people who enjoy music. Its not about ‘hipsters’ or ‘metalheads’ or ‘posers’. Seems more time is spent labelling people and moaning than enjoying music. You should be grateful Andrew is providing a platform for bands to play because, contrary to a comment above, if there is nowhere to play, the bands wont come. and if you open your eyes you will realise Durban is already falling victim to that situation.

  96. Los a egos says:

    Ahem. I haven’t seen an international act at Live yet. It’s just a bigger Unit 11 with a dumber crowd.

  97. Jimi Hogg says:

    Man, I’m out of the loop, I hear Matty boy bought the winston. Don’t know if that’s just bullshit or wishful talk, but if it’s true live are in serious trouble. I know I’d way rather go somewhere that doesn’t rape your wallet for every cent it’s worth, then treat you like shit.

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